(Transcript)

tl;dr

Above the senior level, you have to break the rules. Being the person who’s effective at breaking the rules and getting things done is essentially a job requirement. And you have to show that in your interviews.

We are going to tell you three stories from real interviews to demonstrate this. All of these stories involved candidates who achieved something which wouldn’t have been achieved had they not broken the rules.

The point of this lesson is not to be a jerk. The point is to show the interviewers that you’re comfortable saying “no” to the rules. As long as you back it up by getting stuff done (showing real skills in the interview), they will respect that.

These stories aren’t limited to just behavioral interviews–there is a technical round described–and we chose to include it because it highlights the point of rule-breaking so well. And not every engineer telling these stories is senior; the benefits of rule-breaking seems to be seen across the levels. In part because the candidate won’t be forgotten. In a world where you’re one of many candidates, standing out–even by nontraditional means–might be a requirement.

Rule #1: When a company asks you to do an algorithmic coding exercise, do the algorithmic coding exercise.

This candidate broke rule #1 when he was interviewing at Twitter–back in the early IPO days, and definitely pre-Elon, back when Twitter was considered by most engineers to be a cool place to work. If he hadn’t broken the rules, we wouldn’t have gotten the offer, let alone an offer for an L+1 position. By the way, getting an uplevel offer is so rare, I can remember hearing of it less than 10 times in a career that has spanned a few thousand offers.

Anecdote: “So I’m at the office, HQ in downtown San Francisco, at the final-round interview. And I’m in an office with an engineer. They asked me to do some algorithm problem. I literally had no idea what it was. I basically said that. I was open about it. I have a nontraditional background, and a lot of that highly theoretical stuff is not anywhere near my wheelhouse. I told them: ‘I could do that, but it’d probably be a waste of time. Or, I could show you what I do.’ I proceeded to whiteboard everything I know about video.

At that time, Twitter was looking to beef up their video technology. The engineer interviewing me was really excited throughout my presentation, asking me a ton of questions. By the end of my presentation they were chomping at the bit.

Not only did I get the offer, but they upleveled me.”

Rule #2: Never interrupt your interviewer.

You have to learn the skill of interrupting people. But just once in a 1-hour conversation. You have to make them feel interrupted but in a way they appreciate. The easiest use case for this is on a topic you feel passionate about, or to save the interviewer time.

Rule #3: When you introduce yourself, chronologically describe your career, starting with your education, then your first job, all the way up to your current or last position. Stick almost entirely to work related details, you can mention hobbies, but even that should be done with caution.

Rule #3 is what most candidates live by. For juniors especially, living Rule #3 can be more dangerous than safe.

For junior engineers, especially if you're trying to get your foot in the door and tech, a strong argument can be made that it’s important for you to do something solely to stand out from the pool of other candidates in order to be remembered. This is counterintuitive, because the traditional advice basically tells you: “don’t rock the boat, or do anything too weird.”

Junior and mid-level engineers on the job market are mostly hired by the same requirement–irrespective of the part of the stack they work on like front end, back end, etc–they are all focused on heads-down engineering work. There are no distinct archetypes. This is not a knock on mid-level and juniors. It’s simply a fact–they are the boots on the ground doing most of the ground-level work in engineering orgs. Somewhere above the senior level is where distinct archetypes emerge, and the qualities of those archetypes are the way for staff engineers to stand out.

But for juniors and mids, that’s not available yet. So you need another route to being memorable. If you’re looking to get your foot in the door, and you have a non-traditional background, an argument can be made that it’s even more important for you to be memorable.

So taking risks purely as a function to be remembered is a good idea for below-senior candidates, even though it's counterintuitive. An easy place to do this is at the beginning of the interview when you introduce yourself.

This candidate broke rule #2. And not only that. This candidate says breaking this rule “was one of the main reasons I got my foot-in-the-door job at LinkedIn. I talked to the people that interviewed me. They said out of all the candidates we ever talked to, we remember you because of that crazy story.” Here’s the story:

Anecdote:

Candidate: “When I'm doing an introduction I actually like to tell a story that might help you see how I approach things, not just in software development, but much beyond. So if you're cool with that, I'd like to tell you that story. But if that's not your jam, we can totally talk about something actually very specific to my work history. So which one would you prefer?”

Interviewer: “Tell me the story please.”

Candidate: “So, many moons ago I was still in college and I had to find a car to go to my summer internships which was a couple miles off the campus. I ended up buying a beat up old Saab for $400 or $500. When I called my dad to tell him that's what I paid, his first question was ‘Did it come with all four wheels included?’ Because it was in really bad shape. But it was a good car to me because it was taking me from point A to point B. Until it stopped starting. I would put the key in the ignition, turn the key and nothing would happen. Dead silent. So, I thought I bought a lemon. I tried a whole bunch of things. Nothing worked.

I ended up calling the previous owner and when I told him about the problem he started laughing and he said ‘Did you try moving the floor mats around?’ It turns out, the car came with generic floor mats which would slide under the clutch pedal and so I could never press the clutch pedal all the way which would prevent the engine from cranking. It's a weird thing that happens only with stick shift cars.

And so naturally I go to eBay, I try to find the replacement mats and lo and behold they're between 250 and 300 bucks. That’s half or even more than half of what I paid for the car. There's no chance I could ever afford that as a college student.

I came up with an idea. I go to Craigslist. I found the same exact car for sale. I go to meet the owner and I bring a huge piece of cardboard that I grabbed from my buddies in maintenance. So, when I met the owner, I brought him a cup of Starbucks coffee and I said ‘I'm really sorry I'm not here to waste your time but I can't afford your car. You see that embarrassing ugly thing over there? That's mine. What I really wanted to ask is to see your floor mats if I can.’

And he looked at me like I'm an alien. And then he said, "Sure, I got nothing to lose." He gave me his floor mats, I put them on the big piece of cardboard, traced the outline, then I went back to my dorm room. I cut that big piece of cardboard and then I took an old industrial rug. During the summer I was also working in maintenance– you know mowing the lawn and whatnot– and so they had these big industrial rugs that they were going to throw out and replace them with the new ones so I just asked if I could keep one of the old ones. I took that rug, put my cardboard stencil on the back of it, traced the outline, cut it with scissors, and made my own floor mats that were a perfect fit; they would never slide under the clutch pedals anymore. It solved my problem for about $15, which is 16 to 17 times less money than what eBay wanted.

So, the reason I'm telling you this story is because that's exactly how I approach anything. Not just software development. When I have a problem, I don't stop at the first, third, fifth, or 15th obstacle. If there is a problem that needs to be solved I tend to solve it sooner or later without giving up and I think that is really the core of who I am as an engineer and as a person.”

Key takeaways

“Living Safely is Dangerous” is an idea attributed to the existentialist philosopher Nietzsche that applies well to interviewing. Don’t be afraid to break the rules. You can end up with an outcome that’s more optimal and not available to those who live too safely.

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